Calastir wrote: »

We're talking about The Night Market never being advertised as a group zone by ZOS before it went live.

Like, IDK, if ZoS made some sort of...Roadmap?
That they maybe released MONTHS in advance?

Calastir wrote: »

We're talking about The Night Market never being advertised as a group zone by ZOS before it went live.

You mean like all the times OP gave examples of?

On top of all that the actual npcs in the Night Market also several times in their quests told you before you even entered the districts to group up lol. Very bluntly mind you.

I suppose most players don't listen to dialogue though.

SilverBride wrote: »

OccultNerd wrote: »

I've seen people asking for a solo or easier version of NM, why? Especially after the majority of players wanted harder content!

It was a the same handful of players in the pinned overland thread asking for more difficulty.

Calling it the same handful of players is disingenuous, while there was a handful that would return to the thread there were still plenty of unique users from a quick AI analysis of it. Mid & late did have repeat participants, but that's standard for the forums in general.

Until someone wants to go through each of those 331 pages and collect the data for it, more were for it overall than against it in that thread.

SilverBride wrote: »

Also, I never ever heard anyone in zone chat, or guild chat, or anywhere in game complaining that the game was too easy.

I'm on PCNA, I will gladly tell you, overland content is too easy in my opinion, as I have said for the last 8~ years.
You're limited to 5 guilds that fit your playstyle so using guild chat as a sample isn't relevant.
Not that it matters now as thankfully ZoS has given us what we wanted, optionally harder content that doesn't affect the game for you what so ever, while letting those of us who wanted it enjoy it again.


What the "Majority" wants is also not relevant.
If we went off the majority vote, this game wouldn't even be profitable and all zones would be an easier version of overland we currently have, with no PvP, no dungeons / trials, etc.

It's not a democracy where casual players choose what they want from it.

Athory wrote: »

@peacenote I’ll explain it one more time:

1. Dungeons are group content. And I love them.
   (Okay… power creep basically removed the need for tanks/healers — different topic.)
2. Trials are group content. And I love them too.
   This is why we love ESO. Until this [snip] Market release, this was the group content we had and we loved it. Right?
3. Could the game have more difficulty and more group content? Of course.
   Example: public dungeons. They’re supposed to be group content, yet they’re a joke because they’re way too easy.
4. So far, we all agree. Right?
5. ESO needs more overland difficulty? ESO should’ve had this since release.
   We’re finally getting it soon, good.
6. ESO is an MMO and should have group content. Obviously.
   We already have it, but should we have more? Of course. We love it.
7. I love ESO’s group content, and I hate seeing people gatekeep others in Group Finder because of builds/DPS/etc.
   (Different topic, but everyone knows this is 100% true.)
8. So… we agree on everything up to this point.
   Let’s keep point 7 for another topic as well.

If we agree on everything, then of course the [snip] Market is welcome.
I actually love it, it’s new, it forces players to group up, nobody cares about your DPS/build/etc.

I even understand why ZOS did this. Maybe some of you don’t, but I do.

• I see people gatekeeping others in Group Finder all the time.
  That doesn’t happen in the [snip] Market.
  I truly love that ZOS fixed that here, and I understand it better than many of you.
  Because now nobody is gatekeeping anyone.
  So why do it in Group Finder?
  (But let’s leave that for another topic, I won’t argue about it no matter what you reply.)
  

So yes, we all love the [snip] Market. Of course we all have ideas, this could be better, that could be changed.
Everyone has something they’d improve.

But my problem with the Market is only one, and I’ve said it before:
What I hate is that ZoS made this event with a timeline, and if I want to participate, I must group with others.
And that’s exactly what I truly hate. I don’t really have a choice here, either group up or miss out. No event in ESO has been like this before. We’re talking about a timed event, not a trial or a dungeon, just an event.
They created a unique Hardcore‑only mode that forces players to group each other just to make it easier.
This [snip] Market, with this one Hardcore‑only mode, only becomes manageable if you group up.

ESO has always given me the option to choose my difficulty: Normal / Vet / Vet HM.


Let’s compare this with vRG HM (or other HM):
Why do you hand‑pick your team for vRG HM? To make it easier, correct? Makes perfect sense.
So why do you take any player into the [snip] Market? To make your Hardcore mode easier?? That’s 100% wrong. And this only proves this isn’t even real hardcore, it just forces players to group to feed off each other.

If you love Hardcore, if you truly want to play Hardcore, you should hand‑pick your team and NOT use random players to make your content easier. Casual/solo players are just being used to “feed” this Hardcore‑only mode. Nothing else.

You love the Hardcore nonsense they added, yet you take any player to make it easier? Why?
Why don’t we do that in vet trials/dungeons? Because there, you actually need people who can help you.
This isn’t the hardcore mode you all want in ESO. A 12 players group in almost any veteran trial is harder as this. Yet you exclude those same players from trials, and now you’re happy to group with them? Why? I’ll tell you why, just to serve your own needs. Nothing else. In trials, you have time; here, you don’t.

It’s wrong. Yet here "you" are, all happy with this [fake] hardcore mode, using other players to feed your needs.


I honestly can’t explain this any more clearly than I already have.

First of all, there were many events with group activities. Every chapter celebration, for example. If you have issues with NM, I seriously doubt you can solo a dragon or a harrowstorm, or a new dlc world boss. So what if you were not technically grouped, you still fought bosses with other players. Yes, there were delve quests, but NM also has soloable fetch dailies.
Or that wall event, Writhing fortress was not soloable.
Secondly, players who can do VRG hm absolutely don't need your help. Many of them would not be opposed to helping you, though, if you were a little bit more open minded.

shadoza wrote: »

dcrush wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

sleepy_worm wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

The group finder doesn't function because players don't use it.

This is not true. Group Finder groups for trials regularly fill. Group Finder groups for Night Market fill within 60 seconds.

shadoza wrote: »

The Night Market is forced group content. (Forced because it is NOT doable solo.)

This is also not true. You can teleport to someone in a busy instance if you want to zerg. Unless you meant multi-player content, as you would be following around other players. If you meant multi-player content, I agree that is what it is.

shadoza wrote: »

Without the CP points and the dungeon gears, a player does not have a chance at participating.

And this is absolutely not true. I have been playing with CP 100 or level 12 characters quite often. They are very clearly participating.

If a player does not have CP close to cap and dungeon gear they are not going to live long. Maybe they can survive if they follow a large group and pretend to participate. But they will not be working the Night Market without CP and dungeon gear. (include dungeon pots with gear)

The reality is that there is a huge gap between players that dungeon and players that don't. That gap is caused by power creeps that are generated by dungeon gear, pots, special items.

This is simply not true. I actually started a new account because I wanted loot from all factions. Did the wailing prison intro quest and went straight into the NM at level 3. No CP. I followed groups around, spammed shields, dodge rolled aoes, revived players, got some damage in and looted bosses to get complete gear sets. Right now my character is level 13, decked out in Briarheart and Plague Doctor gear from the event and has all the house wings unlocked. It’s really not so much a question of gear and level but more knowing what to do. Did I die a lot? Absolutely. But dying is not failure. It’s only a failure if the skirmish or boss resets because a whole group wiped.

There’s also no such thing as “dungeon pots”.

I think the key words there are "I followed groups around." You did not play the Night Market, you just picked up the leftovers. Which is what I meant when I said, "Maybe they can survive if they follow a large group and pretend to participate."

Play what ever way makes you feel good. I care not.
Denial does not make the issue go away. It just doesn't.

Why such a defeatist attitide? Most people wouldn't care if you have lower dps or whatever, and even a low level player can help by doing skirmish mechanics, rezzing, healing, drawing aggro, killing adds, bashing the boss etc.
I outdps pretty much everyone in random groups and I don't see other group members as "picking up my scraps" lol. It's just a fun group activity, not a world record run, no need to take it so seriously.

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

On top of all that the actual npcs in the Night Market also several times in their quests told you before you even entered the districts to group up lol. Very bluntly mind you.

I suppose most players don't listen to dialogue though.

"NPC's in the Night Market?" Can't tell if you're joking or not.
We're talking about The Night Market never being advertised as a group zone by ZOS before it went live.

After playing for half an hour to an hour every day, I must say this is yet another disappointment.

I like that you can't do it solo. We miss content that requires grouping other than the usual dungeon and trials. This is a good refreshment in that matter.

But the whole design of it... ugh. Quests are randomly scattered. You play for 20 mins and then you pick up random quests that tells you to do another full circle of the zone... And then you find another one... Quests should be located at the entrance so you can pick them all up and do in one run. Or even better - WORLD QUESTS like WoW has. PLEASE!

Bosses are stupidly designed. They have those stupid mechanics where they are invincible for some time or require some mechanics to make them vulnerable again. This is insane... We told you a hundred times this is no fun and you keep implementing it. Engaging and fun encounters doesn't mean invincible enemies but well-set difficulty with interesting mechanics. The most horrible example is the werewolf in Sorrow's Friend. You are just AFK in the night phase because there's literally nothing to do. You don't even know if you do any dmg to the adds because you can't see the HP, or dmg being done.

Rewards are lame. Simple as that. Nothing exciting to be found in the entire Night Market. Recycled sets are not necessarily a bad thing. Some people may be missing some and this offers a passive way to fill them up. But there's really nothing to be excited about. Can we finally admit being stuck at a single level of gear is simply not cutting it? Can we finally advance the gear higher and adjust the enemies accordingly?

The splinters and relic system is just annoying. There are people in groups who can bypass blockades and then there are those who must run around and potentially die because of it. Horrible design. And once you do unlock the relic? Nothing to be excited about. Just something you had to have so you can keep up with others.

Then there are many, many bugs. Quests which won't trigger (e.g., take a note, find a person...), bugged encounters which need to be reset to be fixed. How do you explain it to those random people who don't even bother to read the chat that we need to reset the boss? The boss just ends up being bugged forever. Also, who the f thoguht it a good idea to scroll a text of how many enemies we killed for 5 minutes?! First kill 25, then 50, and finally 75... these scroll on the screen forever! WHAT THE HELL!?

Some of the puzzles are just plain stupid. There's no way to solve them when there's a few other people just hitting the triggers all the time randomly. Not to mention there's no explanations of what you're supposed to do. OK, you can figure it out, np, but we're in an environment where you must group and people won't wait for you to solve a puzzle. Not alone. They will want to help. And they will unhelp. Horrible design.

Overall, frustrating experience with, yet again, nothing exciting to be earned or achieved. Just mindless running around and killing things. I expected some story to be had with the factions, but nope. They all seem to be designed differently but there's absolutely nothing to it. You just pick the one which has the best monster set. And yet again we have that stupid server-wide competition going on. Haven't you learned anything with the Writhing Wall? These are absolutely meaningless and only make an illusion of competition when in fact they are always unfairly set up and always meddled in with the ZOS even when ongoing.

SilverBride wrote: »

The majority do not want harder content. It was a the same handful of players in the pinned overland thread asking for more difficulty. That is far from the majority of players.

How do you know what the majority of players wants? Do you have any data to prove this statement?

ZOS has a lot of tools to analize what the players do and want, and they decided to go live with this event zone (harder content) and annouce the challange difficulty options.

"the same handful of players" works for both sides of conflict. How many post have you wrote in this "veteran overland" thread? I was in favour of it and maybe made one or two posts there.